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I love curiosity.
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love not having to be right.
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You know, if it feels yucky in your gut, you've got to say it because maybe there's something there
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that we're not seeing yet. And we have made some of the best decisions. When somebody questioned what we thought was our decision,
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Hello and welcome to Courageous Leaders connected Teams. I'm your host, Stephanie Freeth, and I am so excited to have Paul Blatt joining
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me for an amazing conversation today. Paul is the CEO of Gesher Human Services and we're so excited to have him.
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So welcome Paul. Great to have you. Great to be here. That the introduction I was the five, 432I would thought, we are on iCarly.
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I was very excited. And then, you know,
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We'll create our own version, right? Right, right. I
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also, well,
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today's episode, we're really going to dive into how Paul has been
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using conscious leadership at Gesher Human Services.
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We're both in the southeast Michigan area. Paul and I got to know each other through Leadership Detroit, which is a program through the Detroit Regional Chamber of Commerce.
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I was doing some,
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training for that program, including bringing in the Enneagram and conscious leadership and when I first met Paul, he was part of a cohort of about, what, 60 ish people. And he was a vice president at what was called JBS at the time. And I have gotten the privilege to really watch Paul. From what year was that?
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Paul? Back in
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19
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2019. So I've gotten to,
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work with Paul since then, on and off, work with his team, see him go through a merger, see him go through so many different things and so I thought he'd be the perfect guest just to talk about his own courageous leadership journey, because there's so many great stories
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to tell, so
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Paul.
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Tell us a little bit about
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Gesher and what
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you do.
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Sure.
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Thank you. So Gesher, as you said, is, a merge organization,
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previous
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Jewish Vocational Service
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and another organization named Kadima mental Health Services.
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And so three and a half years ago,
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we brought those two organizations building on the strengths of those organizations,
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with a mission to provide support and help for people
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at home, at work and in the community.
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Gesher is the Hebrew word for bridge. So we're the bridge to support and bridge to where people want to be.
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Our mission is to serve the metro Detroit area
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while meeting the needs of the Jewish community. And so framing that a little bit,
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in the metro Detroit area, we last year served
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over 33,000 individuals,
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and about 2700 people within the Jewish community.
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So we are serving
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metro Detroit
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in a meaningful way,
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supporting a workforce,
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supporting people with mental health challenges and
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providing supportive housing for those individuals
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and other
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places where we're supporting people.
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They program for people living with dementia.
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clubhouse for people with mental health challenges, creative expressions, art
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program for folks.
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so lots of different ways.
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Lots of different partners.
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Amazing. Yeah. The work you do is is far reaching and really impactful.
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You know, there's always this question in leadership about nature versus nurture. And do you feel like you have always had a,
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spark of leadership in you or, you know, when did you know you wanted to lead an organization like Gesher?
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How did that evolve for you?
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So when I when I started arguing with my teacher in fourth grade, I knew there was nothing that had to happen.
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but I think also,
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I mean, my second week,
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Catholic Social Services in Muskegon and 30 plus years ago,
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I met
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our executive director,
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and, that day, I said,
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I kind of want that dude's job,
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And I was, like, 22 years old. Knew nothing. Barely knew how to drive to my apartment.
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But there was something within me that said,
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like, I could see myself in that space.
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But even then,
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you have to
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do all the really hard work to prove yourself
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out
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during that time and do the jobs that you
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don't want to do,
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right.
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To then
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make room for somebody to identify
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you
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as a leader within that space
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to
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have those opportunities presented.
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And just
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so we can understand what were some of the roles that
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you had along the way?
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So I started my career working with families at risk of placement because of abuse, neglect.
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I was a case manager working in people's homes
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over on the west side of the state and then up in the
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thumb area
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for those Michiganders.
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and I had to do a case management job, and then I had to leave the field.
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Because
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wasn't
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meeting my needs. I needed more, wanted more. I went out, became a headhunter,
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right? I started like,
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changing my whole. Everything. Went to profit, went to,
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commission based job.
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I mean, it's such a change.
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99, 2000 was hitting and the economy was shifting, and I'm like, got to get something stable. So I went and jumped in and went to do H.R. Within an organization. And
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then the economy wasn't stable.
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Right. And so I found myself unemployed,
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and trying
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to.
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always have to acknowledge that like, it was top. It was hard. People said, you know, you're going to be okay. You'll be fine. And,
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at the time I said,
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I get it, but it feels really not great. I think I said,
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but I don't know if you're letting that in. So,
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And then I
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pivoted and went and worked, contract with UAW Ford and,
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had to find my way in that space.
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And started to
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get some opportunities for some
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associate director or something.
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But I didn't have anyone else directing, so I'm not sure
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what that was supposed to be.
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And then to finally,
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you know, start getting into a more of our director role at that time, having some teams that I was working with.
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And then, you know, I found myself unemployed again.
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I think sometimes you will think that the road to a CEO job is more linear, and often it's not. So just hearing your story is really validating for people. Like
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I always talk about the role of contrast.
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doing one thing helps you then see what the next thing is.
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and if you're just learning and growing,
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there's no
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wrong moves, even when it's tough along the way.
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You know,
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say to my kids like, you know, we don't know our journey, right? We have to go on it and we have to do our best while we're in there, and life's going to take us in lots of different directions.
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And we just have to
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recognize that if you keep doing what's the right thing,
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it'll land fine. You'll make it. It'll be good.
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So, building on that,
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when you were first learning about conscious leadership and, there's a book called The 15 Commandments A Conscious Leadership by Jim Detmer, Diana Chapman, and Kaylee Walker Clapp.
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And you of all of your cohort really seem to take it in and seem to apply it,
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and especially in that I watched you transition from being a VP and then
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being about to take on the CEO role.
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What was it about conscious leadership that resonated with you so much that you wanted to bring it into your organization?
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So
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think the first time you, made us breathe, I was kind of like a little bit. What is this? I got got to be honest. I'm like, that's a little more room for me. You know, I'm not sure if I'm there.
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but
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when we started talking about to me and by me.
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The concept of,
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allowing life to happen to you. Are you going to
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control of of how you're going to respond to life?
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And I had a team where I had a group of folks that were really victim mentality.
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and I was trying, as I was hoping to then, you know, move into a CEO role. I had to change a culture where
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people just weren't,
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buying into this, like, we have some control of our how we respond to things.
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Unknown
And so when
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you talked about that in one of our sessions, I was like, that's the methodology that I could bring to my team
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that,
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we all can have a similar language. We can all start talking,
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about
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where how we're showing up today. Are we below that line or above the line?
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And,
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really start to
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put a uniform language
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around it,
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so that we can make it happen.
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It was funny because when I called you and said, I want you to come and bring this to my team,
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And you're like,
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I will only work
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with an organization that the CEO is 100% committed to it.
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and
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my response to you was, well, our current CEO is not,
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but in two weeks we'll have it all.
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out.
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I
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remember that,
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and I think
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you have proven that out, like for
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this
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body of work
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to really
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settle in to an organization, to become the operating system. I find that the leader has to embody it.
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you know what I think about something like agreements, commitment, six. It's about integrity.
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Wholeness. Energetic wholeness. Not just good, bad, right, wrong in terms of moral integrity, which is important, but energetic wholeness, being able to say who will do what by when?
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And I saw that being one of the first
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commitments and ways of being that
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you brought into
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your day to day work, what was that like for you?
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So
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that's that that concrete thing that we could grab Ahold of.
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And I've
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also realized, though, if if we're not showing up as our true authentic self,
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then those commitments don't mean anything.
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And I just last week, we had a conversation. I did a refresh with some of my team, and, and we were talking about, like, what's working and what's not working.
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and one of the teams identified that they, well, they have these impeccable agreements, right? They're making these impeccable agreements at the end of a meeting.
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But they're not following throughout.
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And
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my response to them was,
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well, I don't know how impeccable those agreements are, right? Because when we talk about impeccable agreements, it means you're going to do what you say you're going to do in the time you're going to do it. Nine out of ten times. And it sounds like you're not there. So maybe you need to go back and really think about, do you when you commit to each other, are you really being sincere and authentic when you're doing it?
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Yeah. And and whenever we talk about that, we talk about
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making agreements from a whole body. Yes. And if we don't have a whole body. Yes. Head, heart and got all aligned, then we don't make the agreement or
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we renegotiate or you open the space to talk about what could get in the way of fulfilling this agreement, but talk about it on the front end.
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then if you can't, if you're going to break that agreement, go back and renegotiate as soon as you know that it might be different. But you're
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right
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like having to be in a book and living it and practice it, it takes what we call toddling. It takes practice. It takes, hey, we're going to mess this up.
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We're human. Let's recommit. Let's,
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try to,
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get back at it. Yeah.
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that whole body. Yes, is another huge thing.
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in our leadership meetings,
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we, we take the pulse before we move on, on decisions.
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and if somebody doesn't have a whole body. Yes. We pause.
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we really go back and let that person try to articulate what it is that doesn't feel good.
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Unknown
You know, if it feels yucky in your gut, you've got to say it because maybe there's something there
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that we're not seeing yet. And we have made some of the best decisions. When somebody questioned what we thought was our decision,
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to be able to pull that back and,
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to uncover something that,
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we missed,
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has been such powerful work.
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Unknown
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. And
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it takes courage to create that space to invite early on.
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you know, some people want to just move ahead and be like, let's go forward with the decision. But to invite that,
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early on can be really powerful, like you're saying. Yeah.
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it's
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not easy, right?
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It's not easy to give up that control at times. Right.
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we think the leader we're supposed to be the one that
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has
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the right answer.
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And
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to be able
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to slow down and to be humble enough to say, like, I'm not sure if I have all the data, I don't know if
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I'm all the way there,
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like, I feel like we're not there.
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And
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to be able to say,
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help me get to that place,
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then encourages us to the rest of the team to to feel like they can bring everything to the table.
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Unknown
Great. And let's build on that. So I think a lot of leaders think that they need to hold their team members accountable. And it's very different in the conscious leadership framework.
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Unknown
It's really about responsibility and taking responsibility, which is something that we have to do. We can place blame away from us or we can take responsibility. So and then another thing that goes along side that is curiosity. So
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Unknown
I'd love to hear from you how you're living both of these concepts. Commitment one and to taking radical responsibility and being curious letting go blame and judgment.
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Unknown
Be like, I don't know the answer to this, but we're going to figure it out. Do you have examples for how you've been living those two? Yeah. You know the accountability piece. It
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Unknown
fascinating because I had the opportunity,
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to do this, 360 right. So a couple of years into my role,
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and you and I discussed that 360 and
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two of my direct reports,
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the thing that they wanted most
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Unknown
from me was this accountability piece, even years they moving into and we're talking about accountability all the time.
00:13:37:02 - 00:13:39:11
Unknown
They still wanted me to
00:13:39:11 - 00:13:44:19
Unknown
go deeper on that. And part of it was I had to be 100% accountable
00:13:44:19 - 00:13:45:10
Unknown
to them.
00:13:45:10 - 00:13:47:03
Unknown
And for everything that I said,
00:13:47:03 - 00:13:50:11
Unknown
in order for anyone else to start taking accountability.
00:13:50:11 - 00:13:51:26
Unknown
And so,
00:13:51:26 - 00:13:53:22
Unknown
you know, I have to live it.
00:13:53:22 - 00:13:57:00
Unknown
So if we say everyone has to have this,
00:13:57:00 - 00:14:00:21
Unknown
performance management done by this date and I don't do it,
00:14:00:21 - 00:14:03:13
Unknown
then everything falls apart, right?
00:14:03:13 - 00:14:03:29
Unknown
So that
00:14:03:29 - 00:14:05:00
Unknown
part of it.
00:14:05:00 - 00:14:06:02
Unknown
And it's also then
00:14:06:02 - 00:14:07:23
Unknown
turning it back to people and say,
00:14:07:23 - 00:14:09:04
Unknown
you made this commitment,
00:14:09:04 - 00:14:10:25
Unknown
so how are we going to move forward
00:14:10:25 - 00:14:12:06
Unknown
in understanding that,
00:14:12:06 - 00:14:13:20
Unknown
you're making a commitment to us.
00:14:13:20 - 00:14:16:17
Unknown
you're the one that needs to be accountable for your space.
00:14:16:20 - 00:14:18:03
Unknown
What do we need to do to help you
00:14:18:03 - 00:14:20:07
Unknown
or what is is not always great.
00:14:20:07 - 00:14:22:05
Unknown
And unfortunately or fortunately,
00:14:22:05 - 00:14:26:16
Unknown
some people couldn't live that space, right. Some people,
00:14:26:16 - 00:14:35:06
Unknown
when you're talking about being held accountable or holding yourself accountable 100% and taking responsibility. Yeah, taking that responsibility,
00:14:35:06 - 00:14:36:03
Unknown
they had to leave
00:14:36:03 - 00:14:39:19
Unknown
if it was uncomfortable for them, they were looking for blame.
00:14:39:21 - 00:14:47:03
Unknown
They were the same people that were victims. When we first started the process. And so it really showed very big.
00:14:47:03 - 00:14:49:22
Unknown
And then and the other question of curiosity,
00:14:49:22 - 00:14:51:15
Unknown
I love curiosity.
00:14:51:15 - 00:14:54:08
Unknown
It's like my favorite thing in the world.
00:14:54:08 - 00:14:56:24
Unknown
love not having to be right.
00:14:56:24 - 00:15:02:20
Unknown
Wow. That's a powerful statement. How many leaders would say the opposite?
00:15:02:20 - 00:15:07:11
Unknown
They want to be right. So you're saying I love not having to be right,
00:15:07:11 - 00:15:15:07
Unknown
you know, some of my work has been learning why I needed the control to be right before,
00:15:15:07 - 00:15:18:19
Unknown
and for me, it was that need to,
00:15:18:19 - 00:15:21:03
Unknown
have approval by everybody.
00:15:21:03 - 00:15:28:09
Unknown
Right. So I wanted the approval of my team, and I wanted the approval of my board, and I wanted everyone to like me.
00:15:28:09 - 00:15:30:07
Unknown
And some of that desire
00:15:30:07 - 00:15:37:23
Unknown
is what drove me to get to the place that I am today. And sometimes that really kicked me in the ass.
00:15:37:23 - 00:15:39:01
Unknown
I'm glad you brought that up.
00:15:39:01 - 00:15:40:00
Unknown
often
00:15:40:00 - 00:15:43:13
Unknown
when we're in a state of threat, one of three things is at risk
00:15:43:13 - 00:15:50:03
Unknown
approval, security or control. And it's a beautiful question we're always looking at in coaching.
00:15:50:03 - 00:15:54:01
Unknown
And for you to be able to pinpoint, you know, what approval is at risk here.
00:15:54:01 - 00:15:59:15
Unknown
I'm reactive about this decision because I'm not feeling like I have the approval that I need. That's
00:15:59:15 - 00:16:01:28
Unknown
deep work to do. Yeah. And
00:16:01:28 - 00:16:05:05
Unknown
we. And when we talked about it, it was like, what nugget. What is the
00:16:05:05 - 00:16:05:20
Unknown
value.
00:16:05:20 - 00:16:06:25
Unknown
What's the gift
00:16:06:25 - 00:16:07:28
Unknown
that desire
00:16:07:28 - 00:16:08:19
Unknown
gives me.
00:16:08:19 - 00:16:09:24
Unknown
And once I could see
00:16:09:24 - 00:16:10:21
Unknown
that's how I got
00:16:10:21 - 00:16:13:03
Unknown
to be driven and all those things.
00:16:13:03 - 00:16:15:07
Unknown
then it came back differently.
00:16:15:07 - 00:16:17:21
Unknown
So the need for approval,
00:16:17:21 - 00:16:22:26
Unknown
I could be comfortable. I wasn't scared for approval. I was buying it from this,
00:16:22:26 - 00:16:29:07
Unknown
higher place, this more relaxed place, which then gives me the ability to be curious.
00:16:29:10 - 00:16:32:19
Unknown
Beautiful. That's such a great illustration. Yeah, yeah, I
00:16:32:19 - 00:16:49:10
Unknown
call that finding nuggets of gold from below the line or from a state of threat. And if we're not willing to kind of excavate that reactivity, find the gift in it, because we have these parts of us that are just trying to keep us safe, and they've been doing their job for a long time.
00:16:49:10 - 00:16:57:03
Unknown
we want to bring out their gifts. We want to be like, oh, we don't want to get rid of this part. This part is kept. We shaped. This part is a flag or a
00:16:57:03 - 00:17:05:18
Unknown
a guidepost. And yet when you find those reactive parts, being able to use them from a state of curiosity and wonder and
00:17:05:18 - 00:17:06:09
Unknown
growth,
00:17:06:09 - 00:17:07:06
Unknown
that's what
00:17:07:06 - 00:17:08:29
Unknown
really supercharges,
00:17:08:29 - 00:17:09:24
Unknown
I don't know, it's like
00:17:09:24 - 00:17:11:12
Unknown
it's a very human thing.
00:17:11:12 - 00:17:20:10
Unknown
You go from being like, having blinders on to being able to use that without blinders on, from a state of curiosity. That's what it feels like.
00:17:20:10 - 00:17:24:13
Unknown
As you step into curiosity, do you feel like more options open up?
00:17:24:13 - 00:17:26:08
Unknown
how does that show up for you?
00:17:26:08 - 00:17:31:15
Unknown
all the meetings that I feel that are going to be the tough meetings.
00:17:31:15 - 00:17:32:09
Unknown
And my,
00:17:32:09 - 00:17:35:24
Unknown
team comes to me and says, how are we going to address this thing?
00:17:35:24 - 00:17:39:08
Unknown
And the my answer always is we're going to be curious.
00:17:39:08 - 00:17:40:25
Unknown
just yesterday,
00:17:40:25 - 00:17:45:15
Unknown
we are having a little bit of management issue and some poor behaviors
00:17:45:15 - 00:17:47:21
Unknown
by some of the team within that group.
00:17:47:21 - 00:17:49:06
Unknown
And so we brought,
00:17:49:06 - 00:17:51:20
Unknown
our human resource professionals in the room.
00:17:51:20 - 00:18:00:07
Unknown
And we brought a couple of those managers in the room. And our approach for the meeting was, let's just start wondering what's happening.
00:18:00:07 - 00:18:04:11
Unknown
Let's listen. Let's, let's here let's take it in,
00:18:04:11 - 00:18:06:01
Unknown
with the belief that,
00:18:06:01 - 00:18:08:11
Unknown
the right thing will start to emerge,
00:18:08:11 - 00:18:10:00
Unknown
if we had come to it
00:18:10:00 - 00:18:11:08
Unknown
thinking that
00:18:11:08 - 00:18:12:12
Unknown
these managers suck
00:18:12:12 - 00:18:15:01
Unknown
or that they're causing the problem,
00:18:15:01 - 00:18:16:15
Unknown
or if we had it
00:18:16:15 - 00:18:17:07
Unknown
that the
00:18:17:07 - 00:18:17:27
Unknown
staff
00:18:17:27 - 00:18:20:16
Unknown
all need to leave, I mean, whatever it was,
00:18:20:16 - 00:18:21:15
Unknown
then we would have missed
00:18:21:15 - 00:18:22:16
Unknown
other things, right?
00:18:22:17 - 00:18:23:07
Unknown
And we
00:18:23:07 - 00:18:25:11
Unknown
we actually landed in this really,
00:18:25:11 - 00:18:28:24
Unknown
really wonderful space where we started talking about,
00:18:28:24 - 00:18:31:01
Unknown
when does this team operate best.
00:18:31:01 - 00:18:33:28
Unknown
And so we came in with all the stress in all of this
00:18:33:28 - 00:18:34:27
Unknown
yucky ness.
00:18:34:27 - 00:18:37:19
Unknown
And we left with like, let's build on
00:18:37:19 - 00:18:39:11
Unknown
when this team is working best.
00:18:39:11 - 00:18:41:20
Unknown
And and I got to say, there have been times,
00:18:41:20 - 00:18:42:13
Unknown
this idea of
00:18:42:13 - 00:18:44:21
Unknown
the belief, a belief is something we
00:18:44:21 - 00:18:46:00
Unknown
think over and over again.
00:18:46:00 - 00:18:49:27
Unknown
And I heard you just use belief in another way. But there's been moments where
00:18:49:27 - 00:18:50:21
Unknown
I've said to you,
00:18:50:21 - 00:18:51:14
Unknown
that's the belief.
00:18:53:21 - 00:19:04:29
Unknown
What do you mean? Like, no, no, no. So. So I just gotta call you out. So when you disagreed with that in something that I said in front of that group of 70 people,
00:19:04:29 - 00:19:05:23
Unknown
and you're like,
00:19:05:23 - 00:19:08:00
Unknown
I made a statement thinking I was so smart.
00:19:08:00 - 00:19:08:17
Unknown
And you're like,
00:19:08:17 - 00:19:12:29
Unknown
well, that's a belief that that's my job, right?
00:19:12:29 - 00:19:15:13
Unknown
Well, and now I'm hearing you
00:19:15:13 - 00:19:16:07
Unknown
have
00:19:16:07 - 00:19:18:07
Unknown
such a different access point
00:19:18:07 - 00:19:37:18
Unknown
to notice. When is the belief a limiting belief? And when you start from a different belief of like, well, when this team working, it's best curiosity, wonder like I'm hearing you have a whole different level of access to asking those big questions and and holding the space for something new to emerge out of the ickiness.
00:19:37:20 - 00:19:41:27
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. We don't. We don't need my right answer. We need the right answer.
00:19:41:27 - 00:19:42:04
Unknown
it's
00:19:42:04 - 00:19:43:05
Unknown
really cool stuff.
00:19:43:05 - 00:19:45:15
Unknown
But it's scary a little bit. Right.
00:19:45:15 - 00:19:49:18
Unknown
so when I've been training my team, I'll do a little breathing with them.
00:19:49:18 - 00:19:51:26
Unknown
And the one thing that I say to them is that
00:19:51:26 - 00:19:53:07
Unknown
This is powerful stuff.
00:19:53:11 - 00:19:59:21
Unknown
Like in one in already in one of your episodes. Right. You were talking about the power of breath and all those things,
00:19:59:21 - 00:20:00:11
Unknown
and, and,
00:20:00:11 - 00:20:07:29
Unknown
I still haven't gotten brave enough to start, like, all of my meetings, taking a moment for a breath.
00:20:07:29 - 00:20:13:14
Unknown
Right. It like I it still doesn't feel totally it still feels a little bit uncomfortable for me
00:20:13:14 - 00:20:15:13
Unknown
and I tell, I tell when I'm training.
00:20:15:13 - 00:20:18:28
Unknown
I'm like, all right, I'm doing this because there's light is there and I'm going to do it.
00:20:18:28 - 00:20:23:19
Unknown
that. But if you come into a meeting, I'm not going to stay. Probably still not brave enough to,
00:20:23:19 - 00:20:25:13
Unknown
start my meeting with, like,
00:20:25:13 - 00:20:30:23
Unknown
let's change our brain chemistry and really get into this space and the way we should.
00:20:30:23 - 00:20:32:05
Unknown
so much more that needs to be done.
00:20:32:05 - 00:20:32:22
Unknown
great.
00:20:32:22 - 00:20:33:10
Unknown
And
00:20:33:10 - 00:20:38:22
Unknown
aren't a ton of CEOs out there, I imagine, that are starting with breathwork and
00:20:38:22 - 00:20:40:00
Unknown
the possibility of
00:20:40:00 - 00:20:41:24
Unknown
that happening more and more
00:20:41:24 - 00:20:42:17
Unknown
often is what
00:20:42:17 - 00:20:43:26
Unknown
lights me up, because
00:20:43:26 - 00:20:45:23
Unknown
our breath is our life force. And
00:20:45:23 - 00:20:46:04
Unknown
it's a
00:20:46:04 - 00:20:50:28
Unknown
bio hack to be able to work with the breath, especially if we're in a reactive state
00:20:50:28 - 00:20:52:18
Unknown
we're in a stressful situation.
00:20:52:18 - 00:20:53:19
Unknown
Cortisol is running.
00:20:53:19 - 00:20:54:14
Unknown
Our breath is our
00:20:54:14 - 00:20:55:20
Unknown
quickest way to regulate
00:20:55:20 - 00:20:59:10
Unknown
and learning to be comfortable with that, even in business settings.
00:20:59:10 - 00:21:04:23
Unknown
I've had to do it too. Like I've had moments. I'm like, okay, you know, I was a hard charging MBA,
00:21:04:23 - 00:21:07:19
Unknown
who was like, what am I doing starting with this breath work?
00:21:07:19 - 00:21:09:18
Unknown
now I can't imagine not
00:21:09:18 - 00:21:10:02
Unknown
doing it.
00:21:10:02 - 00:21:11:26
Unknown
In fact, we should have started today with some breathing.
00:21:13:01 - 00:21:19:20
Unknown
I was looking forward to it. I thought you were going to ask me if I was above or below the line. After all, every other conversation we've ever had was,
00:21:19:20 - 00:21:20:26
Unknown
well,
00:21:20:26 - 00:21:31:08
Unknown
the other thing that I have seen as we talk about like, changes within our organization and I haven't, I haven't done it direct work with my board yet.
00:21:31:08 - 00:21:31:22
Unknown
But
00:21:31:22 - 00:21:36:05
Unknown
when I watched the way our leadership team interacts with our board,
00:21:36:05 - 00:21:45:15
Unknown
you know, boards can be intimidating, right? Boards come in and they're all well-intentioned, and they all want what's best for the organization.
00:21:45:15 - 00:21:48:20
Unknown
And they don't live it day to day the way the professional.
00:21:48:20 - 00:21:52:05
Unknown
And so they're questions and they're
00:21:52:05 - 00:21:53:26
Unknown
demands at times,
00:21:53:26 - 00:21:55:04
Unknown
feel very threatening.
00:21:55:05 - 00:21:56:15
Unknown
And they need to in
00:21:56:15 - 00:21:57:02
Unknown
this
00:21:57:02 - 00:22:03:19
Unknown
state, fight or flight, like, oh, I have to answer it. Right. I don't want them to be disappointed in me.
00:22:03:19 - 00:22:08:19
Unknown
And the thing that our board talks about most right now
00:22:08:19 - 00:22:09:27
Unknown
is how
00:22:09:27 - 00:22:10:27
Unknown
comfortable
00:22:10:27 - 00:22:11:23
Unknown
our,
00:22:11:23 - 00:22:13:29
Unknown
professionals are at saying,
00:22:13:29 - 00:22:16:21
Unknown
let me understand more what you're asking of us.
00:22:16:21 - 00:22:17:07
Unknown
Right.
00:22:17:09 - 00:22:27:01
Unknown
I think I know your answer, but before I start answering, let me make sure I have the right question. Or maybe like, the understand what you're looking for.
00:22:27:01 - 00:22:35:12
Unknown
And that has shifted the dynamics with our team and our board in such a powerful way. Because
00:22:35:12 - 00:22:39:05
Unknown
we don't have to be defensive when somebody is asking a question because
00:22:39:05 - 00:22:42:25
Unknown
we're going to understand better and we're going to believe that
00:22:42:25 - 00:22:44:10
Unknown
they're coming to us from this,
00:22:44:10 - 00:22:45:21
Unknown
right place.
00:22:45:21 - 00:22:52:13
Unknown
And so the affords us the ability to really give a good answer and really bring the right data forward.
00:22:52:13 - 00:23:09:25
Unknown
That's a great example. And I'm imagining all the practice that your leadership team has had working with each other first around that, so that by the time you're in a a more potentially stressful situation, like a board meeting, it's integrated that it's it's showing up as, as who they are and how they're interacting.
00:23:09:25 - 00:23:11:16
Unknown
And that's a great example.
00:23:11:16 - 00:23:44:00
Unknown
If you are a team leader looking to build more cohesion, more productivity, more alignment within your team, you've come to the right place. I'm Stephanie Freeth and I love doing Team Enneagram workshops. These workshops are really incredible. We go through an assessment process where we look at the type structure for each team member. I meet with the team members one on one to make sure the type is is resonating, and then we meet in person for a half day and I bring out my Enneagram carpet.
00:23:44:01 - 00:24:05:20
Unknown
We go through each of the nine types. We talked about what is it like to be this type structure with its varying strengths and challenges. And I always invite each team member to say, what is it that you need your team members to know to work best with you? So it creates this beautiful, compassionate space or vulnerability. We laugh.
00:24:05:21 - 00:24:30:09
Unknown
We, just cover a lot of ground and getting to know each other and knowing how we can best support each other in a in a team environment. So if you choose to go forward with this, make your deposit. Now these workshops do fill up. I'm only doing a couple of them a month. And make sure that we have a conversation, because your final total will be customized based on your team size, based on some optional things around the way.
00:24:30:15 - 00:24:52:04
Unknown
But if you want to secure your spot now, go ahead, put your deposit down and we will get you scheduled. We'll get started. I can't wait to work with you. This is a really powerful thing to do with your team, particularly if you're a new leader. If you have some changes happening in different roles and different people come in and go in, now is the time to schedule your team.
00:24:52:04 - 00:24:58:11
Unknown
Enneagram workshop I can't wait to work with you and get to know each and every one of your team members.
00:24:58:11 - 00:25:00:08
Unknown
Let's build on
00:25:00:08 - 00:25:04:05
Unknown
the idea of the board. And I know having gone through the merger,
00:25:04:05 - 00:25:18:14
Unknown
a lot of times it's the cultures of different organizations that will cause a merger to fail. So if if there's any lessons you're willing to share from what that was like from the inside or lessons learned along the way, because you navigated it well.
00:25:18:14 - 00:25:27:10
Unknown
And I know there were ups and downs and and lots to consider. But anything you want to share with our listeners about what that was really like?
00:25:27:10 - 00:25:29:11
Unknown
Well, we did it during Covid,
00:25:29:11 - 00:25:31:12
Unknown
I became the CEO,
00:25:31:12 - 00:25:33:02
Unknown
March 1st, 2020.
00:25:33:02 - 00:25:35:15
Unknown
later we were engaging in a,
00:25:35:15 - 00:25:39:21
Unknown
conversations about potential mergers, as well.
00:25:39:21 - 00:25:47:16
Unknown
So we had a worldwide pandemic and starting conversations about a merger. Some of the conversations had started before I took the role.
00:25:47:16 - 00:25:48:02
Unknown
And we are
00:25:48:02 - 00:25:49:05
Unknown
moving forward
00:25:49:05 - 00:25:50:17
Unknown
with that dialog.
00:25:50:17 - 00:25:52:15
Unknown
And, you know, the
00:25:52:15 - 00:25:55:02
Unknown
one reason why a merger doesn't,
00:25:55:02 - 00:25:58:12
Unknown
go through is because it's usually somebodys ego,
00:25:58:12 - 00:26:00:07
Unknown
And it's usually,
00:26:00:07 - 00:26:03:28
Unknown
you know, that's the there's scarcity mentality in the room.
00:26:03:28 - 00:26:07:10
Unknown
So really asking the questions like,
00:26:07:10 - 00:26:09:09
Unknown
what do you need? Out of
00:26:09:09 - 00:26:12:19
Unknown
the original conversation was with two execs.
00:26:12:19 - 00:26:22:23
Unknown
What do each of us need in order for this to be successful? Right. And then really starting to ask the board what they need to be successful. So it's a lot of curiosity.
00:26:22:23 - 00:26:23:28
Unknown
Again. Right.
00:26:23:28 - 00:26:24:25
Unknown
And,
00:26:24:25 - 00:26:26:25
Unknown
you know, when it got tough,
00:26:26:25 - 00:26:30:19
Unknown
we went back to this the single question,
00:26:30:19 - 00:26:38:20
Unknown
and the question that the thing that was on the table was, would our community be better if these two organizations came together?
00:26:38:20 - 00:26:44:16
Unknown
And if we continued to answer that as yes, then we had the ability to move forward.
00:26:44:20 - 00:26:46:03
Unknown
And so when we are having
00:26:46:03 - 00:26:48:07
Unknown
when we are seeing things differently,
00:26:48:07 - 00:26:54:10
Unknown
we asked that question again with our community to be better off and people were serving be better if we come together.
00:26:54:10 - 00:26:55:20
Unknown
And that
00:26:55:20 - 00:26:58:10
Unknown
helped move conversations
00:26:58:10 - 00:26:59:04
Unknown
through.
00:26:59:04 - 00:27:01:20
Unknown
And so that was that was a big piece of our work
00:27:01:20 - 00:27:09:00
Unknown
bring and we intentionally retrained our leadership on this common language of conscious leadership.
00:27:09:00 - 00:27:14:08
Unknown
So that when we were going through these conversations, when we were
00:27:14:08 - 00:27:15:05
Unknown
feeling
00:27:15:05 - 00:27:21:13
Unknown
defensive and scared, we had the ability and we had permission to bring that forward,
00:27:21:13 - 00:27:25:21
Unknown
to people that we may not have had a close relationship with as well.
00:27:25:21 - 00:27:27:04
Unknown
So all of that.
00:27:27:04 - 00:27:32:07
Unknown
so how does it show up to in terms of two other commitments, candor and gossip?
00:27:32:10 - 00:27:34:28
Unknown
What did you notice? Because a lot of times when
00:27:34:28 - 00:27:42:20
Unknown
you are transitioning and maybe information isn't forthcoming, gossip can start to become rampant. How have you noticed?
00:27:42:20 - 00:27:55:12
Unknown
does gossip have any role in your organization? How is that changed or what's that like? Yeah, our team is really good at gossip. We're good. We? Oh, we're supposed to not have gossip.
00:27:55:12 - 00:28:01:25
Unknown
Oh, I've got that commitment wrong the whole time. Shoved me. Oh, no. Okay.
00:28:01:25 - 00:28:06:01
Unknown
you can feel when somebody is not, you know, really,
00:28:06:01 - 00:28:13:23
Unknown
bringing forward. Right. That they're holding something back when that starts happening, then trust erodes.
00:28:13:25 - 00:28:21:18
Unknown
Right. And then when you can't trust the person now you start questioning. And that's where gossip starts to happen.
00:28:21:18 - 00:28:24:11
Unknown
we had had one of our team members who,
00:28:24:11 - 00:28:25:05
Unknown
would
00:28:25:05 - 00:28:26:23
Unknown
not share,
00:28:26:23 - 00:28:29:18
Unknown
that they disagreed with, with what was happening.
00:28:29:18 - 00:28:30:15
Unknown
And then they would
00:28:30:15 - 00:28:35:29
Unknown
then go back to their teams and not execute on the decision that was made.
00:28:35:29 - 00:28:39:12
Unknown
similar type of person that was this to me thing. Like
00:28:39:12 - 00:28:47:12
Unknown
acted like they had no control and they were given all of the control in the world to share and to say they disagreed. And,
00:28:47:12 - 00:28:48:07
Unknown
possibly,
00:28:48:07 - 00:28:53:00
Unknown
you know, could have been that I didn't create a safe enough space that they felt that that was true
00:28:53:00 - 00:28:56:18
Unknown
or they just really didn't have it to bring to our workplace.
00:28:56:20 - 00:28:58:27
Unknown
Right? It was just never going to happen.
00:28:58:27 - 00:29:00:23
Unknown
But when people are withholding.
00:29:00:23 - 00:29:03:16
Unknown
can see in the teams that are struggling the most,
00:29:03:16 - 00:29:05:00
Unknown
they're the ones that are
00:29:05:00 - 00:29:07:26
Unknown
not living their authentic selves. And they're,
00:29:07:26 - 00:29:12:20
Unknown
kind of playing these games. And then how do you invite people to say,
00:29:12:20 - 00:29:14:14
Unknown
when we withhold, we're
00:29:14:14 - 00:29:15:17
Unknown
bottling up our energy.
00:29:15:18 - 00:29:23:17
Unknown
How do you invite hey, candor is welcome. We want to have everything on the table, even if it's the the, you know, the tough message. How do you create that
00:29:23:17 - 00:29:25:01
Unknown
safe space?
00:29:25:01 - 00:29:26:25
Unknown
my thought is that it's easier.
00:29:26:25 - 00:29:27:15
Unknown
I mean, that
00:29:27:15 - 00:29:28:21
Unknown
really,
00:29:28:21 - 00:29:29:25
Unknown
I'm a pretty
00:29:29:25 - 00:29:32:03
Unknown
tell folks I'm pretty simple person. Like,
00:29:32:03 - 00:29:34:21
Unknown
let's just do the easiest thing possible, right?
00:29:34:21 - 00:29:45:19
Unknown
If it's the right thing, let's just make it the easiest way. We don't need to bring drama into it. We don't need we can just like, have the conversation and get to the place that we need to be.
00:29:45:19 - 00:29:46:12
Unknown
And it
00:29:46:12 - 00:29:49:02
Unknown
not, we can spend all of this energy
00:29:49:02 - 00:29:49:29
Unknown
and
00:29:49:29 - 00:29:53:11
Unknown
we're still going to have to come back to the table and have this conversation again.
00:29:53:14 - 00:29:58:13
Unknown
So why not just come forward and let's put that out there?
00:29:58:13 - 00:29:59:23
Unknown
And hopefully,
00:29:59:23 - 00:30:01:15
Unknown
you know, people see it enough
00:30:01:15 - 00:30:01:23
Unknown
that
00:30:01:23 - 00:30:02:25
Unknown
they believe that
00:30:02:25 - 00:30:03:21
Unknown
sincere.
00:30:03:21 - 00:30:05:24
Unknown
Right? I think that's part of it.
00:30:05:24 - 00:30:08:05
Unknown
we have some folks that have gone through some stuff.
00:30:08:05 - 00:30:12:08
Unknown
They had trauma in our organization, let alone trauma in their lives,
00:30:12:08 - 00:30:14:02
Unknown
where it wasn't safe
00:30:14:02 - 00:30:17:05
Unknown
to share at times in this organization.
00:30:17:07 - 00:30:18:00
Unknown
And,
00:30:18:00 - 00:30:18:18
Unknown
we have to
00:30:18:18 - 00:30:20:05
Unknown
remind them again
00:30:20:05 - 00:30:22:11
Unknown
that didn't work out so well for you.
00:30:22:11 - 00:30:23:06
Unknown
Maybe next time
00:30:23:06 - 00:30:23:18
Unknown
we just
00:30:23:18 - 00:30:25:09
Unknown
bring it forward and have the dialog.
00:30:25:09 - 00:30:26:06
Unknown
Yeah,
00:30:26:06 - 00:30:28:04
Unknown
that's a good point. We all kind of
00:30:28:04 - 00:30:44:15
Unknown
get burned. And sometimes when the culture is different for people who've been there 20, 30 years and then it starts to shift that there's that long term building trust, building relationships, really making sure people feel like, are we actually safe to say this, is this okay?
00:30:44:15 - 00:30:45:06
Unknown
Yeah. We had,
00:30:45:06 - 00:30:46:24
Unknown
one of the compliments I've gotten,
00:30:46:24 - 00:30:51:14
Unknown
we have one of our direct support professionals who's been with the agency 25 years.
00:30:51:14 - 00:31:01:17
Unknown
And she was talking to previous employees, and, she was sharing the story with me, and she said. So they asked me if it's the same way they're sure. And and she goes.
00:31:01:17 - 00:31:02:23
Unknown
I told them it was different.
00:31:02:23 - 00:31:08:04
Unknown
and I'm like, oh, is that good or bad? Like, I didn't know. And she's like, no, no. And like
00:31:08:04 - 00:31:09:10
Unknown
do when you come down,
00:31:09:10 - 00:31:10:28
Unknown
we know that you're coming down
00:31:10:28 - 00:31:11:16
Unknown
to
00:31:11:16 - 00:31:14:01
Unknown
learn and to bring joy.
00:31:14:01 - 00:31:15:27
Unknown
You're not coming down to,
00:31:15:27 - 00:31:17:05
Unknown
find flaws in what
00:31:17:05 - 00:31:17:21
Unknown
we're doing.
00:31:17:21 - 00:31:19:17
Unknown
And so that that's some powerful
00:31:19:17 - 00:31:20:13
Unknown
stuff, too.
00:31:20:13 - 00:31:35:16
Unknown
Yeah. Any time the word joy is invoked in the workplace, I cheer because we need more of it. No, no, there's no fun in our organization. Not at all. You know, like laughing, no joy. I get to work.
00:31:35:16 - 00:31:38:03
Unknown
Yeah. So
00:31:38:03 - 00:31:42:08
Unknown
let's pick up on that. I know we're getting close on time here, but what lights you up?
00:31:42:08 - 00:31:42:16
Unknown
Like
00:31:42:16 - 00:31:43:18
Unknown
What's your.
00:31:43:18 - 00:31:43:29
Unknown
know,
00:31:43:29 - 00:31:47:03
Unknown
I view your leadership journey as,
00:31:47:03 - 00:31:49:08
Unknown
you had so many natural skills, and you keep
00:31:49:08 - 00:31:50:09
Unknown
implementing,
00:31:50:09 - 00:31:52:10
Unknown
you know, more for your team and
00:31:52:10 - 00:31:54:05
Unknown
what's your growth edge right now?
00:31:54:05 - 00:31:58:02
Unknown
Now what feels amazing is watching my team,
00:31:58:02 - 00:32:04:07
Unknown
our execution. We were a good organization before, and I was in,
00:32:04:07 - 00:32:05:25
Unknown
last board meeting, and
00:32:05:25 - 00:32:11:23
Unknown
we were reporting out and talking about, like, like, strategic plan stuff that,
00:32:11:23 - 00:32:12:05
Unknown
and
00:32:12:05 - 00:32:16:06
Unknown
just the fact that we had a strategic plan and we actually were living it.
00:32:16:06 - 00:32:22:19
Unknown
And we're talking about our values on a daily basis, but we had like strategic plan update and
00:32:22:19 - 00:32:29:05
Unknown
fiscal update and our compliance update. And the board was just,
00:32:29:05 - 00:32:30:27
Unknown
in awe of,
00:32:30:27 - 00:32:41:19
Unknown
the work. Right. And it was because, like, these folks made a commitment to the work and they were holding themselves accountable for 100% responsibility for their work.
00:32:41:19 - 00:32:54:07
Unknown
Because I could not have done I may have been able to do each of their work, if that was what I my job was. But they it was their work and they shined. It was so incredible.
00:32:54:07 - 00:32:57:10
Unknown
And to see to see like all of us just,
00:32:57:10 - 00:33:01:11
Unknown
having meaningful conversations about really tough stuff,
00:33:01:11 - 00:33:02:12
Unknown
because we're
00:33:02:12 - 00:33:04:00
Unknown
embracing some of this work.
00:33:04:00 - 00:33:12:18
Unknown
it's meaningful because. Because then I know 33,000 people are going to be treated really well. Yeah. The ripple effect of that is,
00:33:12:18 - 00:33:21:09
Unknown
really powerful. And no CEO can do it all. You need the team. That's why we need these powerful, connected, aligned teams.
00:33:21:09 - 00:33:22:12
Unknown
It's funny because
00:33:22:12 - 00:33:25:24
Unknown
our current CEO is is operating at such a high level.
00:33:25:24 - 00:33:26:29
Unknown
former board chair,
00:33:26:29 - 00:33:32:28
Unknown
asked me how I was the CEO at one point. She goes, because you don't have any of those skills. So.
00:33:34:09 - 00:33:43:07
Unknown
Okay, you're cool, I see. Okay. Got it. Yeah. This is doing so well. But when I was doing it, maybe not so much. That's what I heard. Maybe she received a compliment or.
00:33:43:08 - 00:33:44:14
Unknown
I don't know, but.
00:33:46:24 - 00:33:47:01
Unknown
So
00:33:47:01 - 00:33:48:05
Unknown
before we wrap up,
00:33:48:05 - 00:33:50:21
Unknown
is there anything you want to share
00:33:50:21 - 00:33:55:12
Unknown
that's been an important part of your leadership journey or anything that,
00:33:55:12 - 00:33:58:23
Unknown
you want to share? And then I'll have one more question for you after that. Yeah.
00:33:58:23 - 00:34:01:10
Unknown
You know, I think it is about,
00:34:01:10 - 00:34:03:07
Unknown
the ability to be vulnerable, like, I'm,
00:34:03:07 - 00:34:05:25
Unknown
still working on being able to,
00:34:05:25 - 00:34:09:07
Unknown
feel my feelings in the right place at the right time.
00:34:09:07 - 00:34:10:00
Unknown
And that that's
00:34:10:00 - 00:34:11:16
Unknown
with any of this work.
00:34:11:16 - 00:34:14:13
Unknown
When our true authentic self is coming out,
00:34:14:13 - 00:34:15:19
Unknown
that works in our
00:34:15:19 - 00:34:17:25
Unknown
families, in our community.
00:34:17:25 - 00:34:18:26
Unknown
the work is about
00:34:18:26 - 00:34:21:04
Unknown
how you show up as a human,
00:34:21:04 - 00:34:22:15
Unknown
more than
00:34:22:15 - 00:34:24:19
Unknown
being a CEO of an organization,
00:34:24:19 - 00:34:24:27
Unknown
it
00:34:24:27 - 00:34:27:27
Unknown
and continuing to be able to be that person,
00:34:27:27 - 00:34:30:12
Unknown
is where the reward comes in.
00:34:30:15 - 00:34:32:03
Unknown
That's beautiful. Yeah.
00:34:32:03 - 00:34:40:20
Unknown
so I like to close with all my guests to ask, what is courageous leadership for you? I heard you mentioned vulnerability just now. Is there anything else that
00:34:40:20 - 00:34:43:21
Unknown
really characterizes courageous leadership for you?
00:34:43:21 - 00:34:45:10
Unknown
is that vulnerability
00:34:45:10 - 00:34:46:11
Unknown
really, if
00:34:46:11 - 00:34:49:04
Unknown
you're willing to allow for that to happen,
00:34:49:04 - 00:34:51:23
Unknown
and to support the individuals around you,
00:34:51:23 - 00:34:54:18
Unknown
which is like it sounds like that just makes sense.
00:34:54:18 - 00:34:54:28
Unknown
But
00:34:54:28 - 00:34:59:09
Unknown
that takes a lot of courage to let yourself not have
00:34:59:09 - 00:35:00:00
Unknown
to control
00:35:00:00 - 00:35:00:15
Unknown
everything.
00:35:00:15 - 00:35:01:13
Unknown
And so
00:35:01:13 - 00:35:04:03
Unknown
the more that you can show up and,
00:35:04:03 - 00:35:08:14
Unknown
and really bring just that, vulnerability,
00:35:08:14 - 00:35:15:13
Unknown
I think that that you, you get to this place where beautiful things can happen. Yeah. It's so great.
00:35:15:13 - 00:35:16:11
Unknown
and I find that
00:35:16:11 - 00:35:20:27
Unknown
for me personally, the more vulnerable I'm willing to be, the more connection happens.
00:35:21:01 - 00:35:33:10
Unknown
And it's kind of on a heart level. It's if I'm perfect, I'm actually not connecting and I'm not perfect. So none of us are. Yeah. And yet
00:35:33:10 - 00:35:36:05
Unknown
that courageousness, that lack of perfection
00:35:36:05 - 00:35:36:25
Unknown
builds
00:35:36:25 - 00:35:37:25
Unknown
connection often
00:35:37:25 - 00:35:38:15
Unknown
more than
00:35:38:15 - 00:35:46:18
Unknown
many other things. Sure, sure. When I and I have to just thank you for all the work that you've helped me through, and I appreciate it.
00:35:46:21 - 00:35:54:27
Unknown
Thank you. Well, thank you for being here today. If people want to connect with Gesher, whether there's volunteer opportunities
00:35:54:27 - 00:36:01:16
Unknown
thanks. We can include in the show notes anything you want to tell about connecting to your work and how people can follow you more.
00:36:01:16 - 00:36:02:12
Unknown
Sure. So,
00:36:02:12 - 00:36:05:00
Unknown
if folks are on LinkedIn, go ahead and connect with me.
00:36:05:00 - 00:36:08:19
Unknown
I'd love to be able to find out more about their journey.
00:36:08:19 - 00:36:11:00
Unknown
And so Paul Blatt on on LinkedIn.
00:36:11:00 - 00:36:12:24
Unknown
guess you're my dawg.
00:36:12:24 - 00:36:17:12
Unknown
We do amazing work, for the community, for folks.
00:36:17:12 - 00:36:17:26
Unknown
And,
00:36:17:26 - 00:36:22:01
Unknown
you know, I love to have the conversation tell people more about our work and
00:36:22:01 - 00:36:24:19
Unknown
and how amazing our teams.
00:36:24:22 - 00:36:25:17
Unknown
Amazing.
00:36:25:17 - 00:36:32:29
Unknown
Thank you so much for being here, Paul. I really appreciate your vulnerability, your candor, and just sharing the story of
00:36:32:29 - 00:36:33:25
Unknown
your leadership
00:36:33:25 - 00:36:34:11
Unknown
journey.
00:36:34:11 - 00:36:35:14
Unknown
Thank you.
00:36:35:14 - 00:36:42:24
Unknown
So until next time, stay courageous. Stay connected. See you again soon. Bye bye.
